In a comment to the previous post Dave Watson from Kent, WA, brought up a good discussion point that warrants its own post. He asks:
"I guess I'm just wondering whether The Returning Church group (I realize it's not a very tightly knit organization) is going to have a somewhat lasting impact on the CRC or if you are just going to move on to greener fields when you can't stomach the direction of the CRC leadership anymore (like the URC folk)."
Those involved with the Returning Church discussions have stated their commitment to the CRC and bringing revitalization to the denomination. Being an unorganized "organization" the Returning Church has so far sought to be a forum for networking and sharing ideas as well as encouragement. How can this best be done in the CRC? What sort of "lasting impact" do you see the Returning Church discussions having... if any? Or are we just setting ourselves up to bolt from the CRC and form yet another Reformed denomination/federation/fellowship??
This discussion is open to anyone and given the looseness of the Returning Church organizationally, your thoughts and reflections are very important in determining where this should all go in the future.
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6 comments:
It seems to me that part of this conversation involves the question, "When is it right to leave a church?"
I hope we can agree that the true church is at least defined by following Jesus Christ according to His Word. Therein there ought to be a line somewhere for each Christian where you wouldn't be able to "stomach" the direction in which the local church/denomination was going and would be compelled by love for Christ and His Word to find a more faithful version.
Christ and His Word are ultimate. Not the various expressions of church institution. We commit to these expressions of His church because He compels us to. But when they cease to honor Him to a certain measure (no local church is perfectly faithful), it can become idolatry to maintain fidelity.
I'm not going to attempt to define here where those lines of separation are (and no doubt we will have differing opinions on that), but we should each have those boundaries somewhere. After all, the church is the pillar and buttress of the truth. Lose the truth and the application of the truth, and you're less a church.
So for me at least - would I ever move on from one church organization to another based on certain doctrinal issues and their application? Yes! I would want to tremble at such a decision, and make it prayerfully and carefully, but my allegiance must ultimately be to Christ, His Word, and therefore the church proclaiming and living those properly. But defining where the boundaries are? That takes some wisdom...
I appreciate Matt's comments and would agree 100% - there may come a time to separate, but it should be done with fear and trepidation. I hope the day never comes when the CRC hinders the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
To take this in a bit different direction, I believe the lasting impact this movement can have is at the local congregation level. There are many congregations and individual members who are left flabbergasted by some of the things that have come up on a denominational level. They're left wondering if they're just "sticks in the mud" or "old school" or whatever. They often don't get much positive reinforcement from the denomination (for example, where is our denominational "Office of Complementarian Gift Development"?? We do hold that as a valid interpretation of Scripture so it should be reinforced). Hopefully the discussions and networking here can be that sort of encouragement.
I have also been blessed by the number of church planter types that have come on-board (sorry to segregate) - for one, they're a lot cooler than the rest of us (well, than some of us). Seriously, this goes to show you that being deliberately Reformed is synonymous with evangelism. We have the best news - sinners saved by grace! Keeping the true gospel message pouring forth is going to have a legacy that will be immeasurable.
As we encourage the local congregations - whether long established or brand new - the individual members will be teaching Sunday School and Catechism, leading Bible studies, sharing the gospel, going out into the world and so on... and even attending classis and synod meeting, serving on denominational boards and so on. Part of our task has to be involved... maybe not as a political action committee, but certainly to be present to stand for the truth of Scripture. If we don't do that, there is not reason for us to remain CRC.
Well, since you asked the question on the Internet even though I'm a pro-WICO person I'll chime in with some thoughts.
I think it is important for you as a movement not to become too issue centric. The force of the group resisting the movement towards WICO has been that the opening of these offices to women is an expression of a larger issue. If that is your premise and if it is indeed true then your real battle lies not over WICO but rather with the larger issue.
An illustration of this might be that let's suppose I develop diabetes because of weight gain. The weight gain has weakened my body to the ailment of diabetes. Do you go after the diabetes or do you go after the lifestyle choices that have caused the weight gain.
If you believe WICO is a symptom of a larger malady, go after the malady, not the symptom. If you are correct in this position, you will gain on many fronts, not just WICO.
pvk
FYI - pvk, who left the last comment is Rev. Paul VanderKlay from Living Stones CRC in Sacramento, CA.
If your profile doesn't let us know who you are or you post as "Anonymous" please leave your name, church and city/state. Thanks!
In the most recent issue of Christian Renewal I read about the departure of Trinity CRC, Visalia, CA, to the URC (Art Dieleman, pastor) because the church could not in good conscience delegate council members to Central California Classis meetings for the past 3 years - and that the decisions of Synod 2008 sealed the deal. I wonder whether most of the stated members of The Returning Church would still be in the CRC if they weren't members of classes that don't have women officers delegated to classis meetings. Does The Returning Church have much to offer to "conservative" churches in more pluralistic classes?
Dave in Kent
I've been asked by URC classmates of mine, "So, how long do you expect to stay in the CRC?" This is something we leftovers have to come to grips with.
I was told by a Baptist friend of mine (we used to go to the same church), "15 years ago I never would have expected you to be at a Reformed seminary.” And frankly, neither would I. I have concluded that I have been drafted by God to preach, and I'm doing it the way he wants in the place he wants. The fact that I'm seeking ordination in the CRC is not so much because I've carefully shopped all the denominations and found the CRC to be the best. It's because I married a CRC girl from Pella, IA. and in ministering to her, we have found God bringing her, and therefore I, back home. So, it seems, this matter of staying in the CRC is as much up to God as was my getting into it. If it is a time of peace and blessing the Lord wishes to give me, then I will be grateful. If it is a battle that God wishes me to take on, then he will lead me.
Whatever the situation, I think that those of us who "choose" to stay in the CRC need to evaluate who is making the choice and why. There are plenty of saints in the CRC who still need a shepherd, and I hope to be one God can place confidently over the flock, no matter what three-letter acronym appears on the stationary.
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